Monday, February 19, 2007
The Directors Party!
Part I: Director Alejandro Springall on Judaism, Mexico, Filmmaking, and “My Mexican Shivah"

As a producer, Alejandro Springall’s films have been nominated for an Oscar, and as a director he has won various awards, including Sundance’s Latin American Cinema Award and the Grand Prix de la Découverte for his 1999 “Santitos.”
Alejandro bought me some chamomile tea and told me about Judaism, Mexico, filmmaking, and “My Mexican Shivah”…
-Interview by Jon Robbins
How does your film fit into today’s Mexican cinema?
Right now there’s a lot of expectation from Mexican cinema and Mexican filmmakers. For the moment, I am exempt since my film is completely out of any Mexican canon. Still, it reflects the rainbow of themes there is right now in
“My Mexican Shivah” is Chekhovian comedy where there’s comedy and there’s drama. So it’s unique on this count alone. In fact, it is only the second Jewish-themed film from
Is there a consciousness of European history in
Absolutely. Most of the Ashkenazic immigration was Polish, Lithuanian, Russian; it’s people who came from the Shtetl, fleeing pogroms as early as the 19th century and into the 1920s and 30s, and then certainly after the war, but that was the smallest part.
We have a
Jews in
At one point there was the idea of creating the Jewish state in Baja, and there were discussions with Mexican government. Also, the Jewish community in
There is hardly any overt anti-Semitism in
What drew you to make a film about Jews and a film about a Shivah?
My first motivation was to make a family drama that took place in one location. Now I've always had a fascination for Jewish rituals…
I have a Jewish grandmother, and though I didn’t grow up as a Jew, I have one foot in the community. Of course I’ve been to a lot of Shivot in my life, and it occurred to me that the Shivah was a great ritual that had an incredible dramatic engine. For me, the purpose of the ritual is to find some spiritual well-being, and to decontaminate from death in order to mourn and thus continue with life. People who sit Shivah, the Avelim start in one emotional state, and after the seven days there has been a radical change.
I said to myself it was time to make a film about the Jewish community; that
We were talking casually the other day, and you remarked how different “My Mexican Shivah” was from your previous film, “Santitos” [Traveling Saints]…
Santitos was the opposite of “My Mexican Shivah”: the conflict rages because there is no ritual; there is death, but there is no means for resolution. There is no process for the loss. With “My Mexican Shivah” it is the opposite: the conflict arises because of a strictly regimented ritual. Also, I used 82 sets for "Santitos"! "My Mexican Shivah"mostly takes place in one apartment.
But in both films we have extremely Mexican characters: “Santitos” is not a religious movie either; it’s about the devotion of a woman to her saints, not Catholicism per se; in
The country allows what I call the “religious Paella,” but there is always a way to find a logic, and a fundament;
And also we should recall that the first Jews who arrived in
When I spoke to Ilan Stavans, who wrote the short story on which “My Mexican Shivah” is based, he commented that Jews live freely in
I believe that Jews are. Before now no, but there wasn’t that interest in it either.
They’ve always been protagonists in the sense that great lawyers and doctors are, but you don’t become a protagonist until you become a politician and Jews have become politicians only in the last 12 years. That’s what I think. You see, there were only ever a few cases where being Jewish prohibited you from being X; One cannot say this was ever part of the Jewish experience in
Never has a Jewish temple been closed in
Although in society, I can tell you, there is some anti-Semitism but it is a religious anti-Semitism. It comes from the horrible Catholic tradition of the Theocide. There is of course the type of anti-Semitism you have where people say “Oh you’re half Jewish Alejandro, I like Jews. I fact some of my best friends are Jews!” They don’t even know how deep this problem runs. But in the press you don’t see comments like that because of the Jewish Central Committee, which really works to educate and to keep anti-Semitic discourse out of public discourse.
No, there is no big difference between Jews and Mexicans like there is in the
“My Mexican Shivah” has a unique visual style. The camera is an outsider, an “eavesdropper,” as you put it. Would you talk about this approach? How much of it is a product of the excellent acting?
I rehearsed a lot with the actors so they would really have the characters in their skin. The film wasn’t acted for takes. This allowed me to spend all set-time creating a naturalistic life for “Shivah” and to have the camera move with a lot more freedom. This way, I would catch bits and pieces of something that was actually happening.
Many times I used two cameras. I would run the entire scene knowing how I wanted to fragment it, so I would cover it in full takes. There was no performing for a certain cut. I just picked it all up with a very close camera and a POV, depending on what I thought of the scene. In some scenes we have to be very close to the character, we are their intimate, and then when it comes time to follow up on the general action, I switch to the POV.
Would you give an example of this technique?
For example, when Ari arrives with the kids: we are part of the turmoil, and it’s handheld and it’s brisk cutting. Like any Jewish family, everyone’s speaking at the same time. The camera is in the epicenter of the turmoil, so that the audience would be there and that would strengthen their emotional relationship with the whole Shivah.
The important thing was to be close or distant enough, and then to jump into the middle of the scene as that other characters, the camera. 85% of the movie takes place in one apartment so I had to avoid this feeling of claustrophobia, but also to go in and out in a certain way so the audience somehow feels it, too. To me it wasn’t very mise-en-scene but more documentary.
What about the music by the Klezmatics, wasn’t that mise-en-scene?
But the music helps with the atmosphere. It’s very specific, at certain transitions, in certain scenes, it keeps us attached to the Shivah and Jewishness.
Was that a concern?
I made this movie for Mexican audiences, non-Jewish audiences; I think non-Jews relate to the movie by way of these elements. I tried to communicate how this Shivah smells, sounds, and tastes by way of certain elements. How are the nights, how are the days, what do you eat? How’s the light? I had to give the most I could, I had to introduce Jewishness to the Mexican audience, and of course Jews who watch the movie pick up on many of these elements.
There is an aspect to the film that only Jews can understand, and there are a few elements that only very observant Jews notice and appreciate, like when the son and father recite the Kaddish. I had great council: two rabbi friends of mine helped me to plan the details.
We had one screening in
Like Ilan Stavans says, ‘Jews are like any other human being, just a little bit more.’ Jewish rituals are very intense, and I wanted to communicate this. Look how beautiful, how wise, how old this ritual is, but also how right it is, how efficient. Everybody should have Shivot in their families, with their own prayers, their own religions; those seven days, man, they’re magical!
Maybe my next movie will be about a Bris: people think it’s a horrible thing to do, but I always show off my own Bris photos—that was one thing my father would not negotiate on. It’s one of the happiest rituals of them all. Men especially get very happy.
Please check back in the next few days for Part II of my interview with Alejandro Springall.
Part I: Director Alejandro Springall on Judaism, Mexico, Filmmaking, and “My Mexican Shivah"

As a producer, Alejandro Springall’s films have been nominated for an Oscar, and as a director he has won various awards, including Sundance’s Latin American Cinema Award and the Grand Prix de la Découverte for his 1999 “Santitos.”
Alejandro bought me some chamomile tea and told me about Judaism, Mexico, filmmaking, and “My Mexican Shivah”…
-Interview by Jon Robbins
How does your film fit into today’s Mexican cinema?
Right now there’s a lot of expectation from Mexican cinema and Mexican filmmakers. For the moment, I am exempt since my film is completely out of any Mexican canon. Still, it reflects the rainbow of themes there is right now in
“My Mexican Shivah” is Chekhovian comedy where there’s comedy and there’s drama. So it’s unique on this count alone. In fact, it is only the second Jewish-themed film from
Is there a consciousness of European history in
Absolutely. Most of the Ashkenazic immigration was Polish, Lithuanian, Russian; it’s people who came from the Shtetl, fleeing pogroms as early as the 19th century and into the 1920s and 30s, and then certainly after the war, but that was the smallest part.
We have a
Jews in
At one point there was the idea of creating the Jewish state in Baja, and there were discussions with Mexican government. Also, the Jewish community in
There is hardly any overt anti-Semitism in
What drew you to make a film about Jews and a film about a Shivah?
My first motivation was to make a family drama that took place in one location. Now I've always had a fascination for Jewish rituals…
I have a Jewish grandmother, and though I didn’t grow up as a Jew, I have one foot in the community. Of course I’ve been to a lot of Shivot in my life, and it occurred to me that the Shivah was a great ritual that had an incredible dramatic engine. For me, the purpose of the ritual is to find some spiritual well-being, and to decontaminate from death in order to mourn and thus continue with life. People who sit Shivah, the Avelim start in one emotional state, and after the seven days there has been a radical change.
I said to myself it was time to make a film about the Jewish community; that
We were talking casually the other day, and you remarked how different “My Mexican Shivah” was from your previous film, “Santitos” [Traveling Saints]…
Santitos was the opposite of “My Mexican Shivah”: the conflict rages because there is no ritual; there is death, but there is no means for resolution. There is no process for the loss. With “My Mexican Shivah” it is the opposite: the conflict arises because of a strictly regimented ritual. Also, I used 82 sets for "Santitos"! "My Mexican Shivah"mostly takes place in one apartment.
But in both films we have extremely Mexican characters: “Santitos” is not a religious movie either; it’s about the devotion of a woman to her saints, not Catholicism per se; in
The country allows what I call the “religious Paella,” but there is always a way to find a logic, and a fundament;
And also we should recall that the first Jews who arrived in
When I spoke to Ilan Stavans, who wrote the short story on which “My Mexican Shivah” is based, he commented that Jews live freely in
I believe that Jews are. Before now no, but there wasn’t that interest in it either.
They’ve always been protagonists in the sense that great lawyers and doctors are, but you don’t become a protagonist until you become a politician and Jews have become politicians only in the last 12 years. That’s what I think. You see, there were only ever a few cases where being Jewish prohibited you from being X; One cannot say this was ever part of the Jewish experience in
Never has a Jewish temple been closed in
Although in society, I can tell you, there is some anti-Semitism but it is a religious anti-Semitism. It comes from the horrible Catholic tradition of the Theocide. There is of course the type of anti-Semitism you have where people say “Oh you’re half Jewish Alejandro, I like Jews. I fact some of my best friends are Jews!” They don’t even know how deep this problem runs. But in the press you don’t see comments like that because of the Jewish Central Committee, which really works to educate and to keep anti-Semitic discourse out of public discourse.
No, there is no big difference between Jews and Mexicans like there is in the
“My Mexican Shivah” has a unique visual style. The camera is an outsider, an “eavesdropper,” as you put it. Would you talk about this approach? How much of it is a product of the excellent acting?
I rehearsed a lot with the actors so they would really have the characters in their skin. The film wasn’t acted for takes. This allowed me to spend all set-time creating a naturalistic life for “Shivah” and to have the camera move with a lot more freedom. This way, I would catch bits and pieces of something that was actually happening.
Many times I used two cameras. I would run the entire scene knowing how I wanted to fragment it, so I would cover it in full takes. There was no performing for a certain cut. I just picked it all up with a very close camera and a POV, depending on what I thought of the scene. In some scenes we have to be very close to the character, we are their intimate, and then when it comes time to follow up on the general action, I switch to the POV.
Would you give an example of this technique?
For example, when Ari arrives with the kids: we are part of the turmoil, and it’s handheld and it’s brisk cutting. Like any Jewish family, everyone’s speaking at the same time. The camera is in the epicenter of the turmoil, so that the audience would be there and that would strengthen their emotional relationship with the whole Shivah.
The important thing was to be close or distant enough, and then to jump into the middle of the scene as that other characters, the camera. 85% of the movie takes place in one apartment so I had to avoid this feeling of claustrophobia, but also to go in and out in a certain way so the audience somehow feels it, too. To me it wasn’t very mise-en-scene but more documentary.
What about the music by the Klezmatics, wasn’t that mise-en-scene?
But the music helps with the atmosphere. It’s very specific, at certain transitions, in certain scenes, it keeps us attached to the Shivah and Jewishness.
Was that a concern?
I made this movie for Mexican audiences, non-Jewish audiences; I think non-Jews relate to the movie by way of these elements. I tried to communicate how this Shivah smells, sounds, and tastes by way of certain elements. How are the nights, how are the days, what do you eat? How’s the light? I had to give the most I could, I had to introduce Jewishness to the Mexican audience, and of course Jews who watch the movie pick up on many of these elements.
There is an aspect to the film that only Jews can understand, and there are a few elements that only very observant Jews notice and appreciate, like when the son and father recite the Kaddish. I had great council: two rabbi friends of mine helped me to plan the details.
We had one screening in
Like Ilan Stavans says, ‘Jews are like any other human being, just a little bit more.’ Jewish rituals are very intense, and I wanted to communicate this. Look how beautiful, how wise, how old this ritual is, but also how right it is, how efficient. Everybody should have Shivot in their families, with their own prayers, their own religions; those seven days, man, they’re magical!
Maybe my next movie will be about a Bris: people think it’s a horrible thing to do, but I always show off my own Bris photos—that was one thing my father would not negotiate on. It’s one of the happiest rituals of them all. Men especially get very happy.
Please check back in the next few days for Part II of my interview with Alejandro Springall.
Kristi Jacobson on Her Grandfather and Her Film, "Toots"
Larger-than-life Bernard "Toots" Shor cut his teeth in Prohibition Era New York. He mixed with the toughest elements in loan sharking, gambling, and bootlegging, and no one was tougher, gruffer, or more charming. Toots Shor loved the city of New York and loved running his famous restaurant and club on West 51st, named Toots, of course. Come discover a simpler New York bounding back from the War with booze, celebrities, sports, and an intense optimism embodied in Toots' private club. The Yankees, Jackie Gleason, and Frank Sinatra were all personal friends, and Walter Cronkite, Mike Walace, Lauren Bacall, Yogi Berra, and Whitey Ford all have good things to say; but Toots had demons, too. In her documentary film, Toots Shor's granddaughter explores and celebrates his life.Kristi Jacobson has been working in documentaries for over ten years, and has made a number of television documentaries, but “Toots” is the first truly independent film that she has produced and directed.
I really liked the way you told the story of “Toots.” How did you approach the narrative strategy?
I’m especially pleased to hear that because figuring out how to do the narrative was far and away my biggest challenge. Mostly because I didn’t want to start the film in 1903 when Toots was born in
Was there a script?
No, I only had my idea of what I wanted from the film. But we really worked the material and tried to create a narrative arc like in fiction films, with our feeling and instinct for the material. In fact one of our most important breakthroughs was realizing that
And it was especially interesting to see
As a New Yorker I had an incredible experience getting to know my city from the 30s to the 60s. And all that stuff is still a part of the sidewalks and the buildings, part of the water towers and the life of
You showed the good and the bad of the city and of your grandfather.
I didn’t want to make a puff piece. Going in, I knew my grandfather had ties to the Mob, but I didn’t know how deep they ran. It was really important for to get to the bottom of that, and to bring it to the audience. Also, I didn’t go in with a preconceived idea of who my grandfather was; I wanted to discover him as I made the film. So I tried to present the good, the bad, and the ugly.
It was really hard. Someone asked me whether I’d been turned down for interviews. In fact the only people who turned me down were those who specifically did not like Toots. For instance, Joe Namath had noted in his biography that he didn’t like Toots and that he had no interest in a restaurant full of old geezers, that there were no chicks there. So I wanted to interview him because he represented an entire group of people who were important in the demise of Toots. I approached him with various important people and he did not want to do the interview. There was also someone who had written bad things about Toots and when I interviewed him he wouldn’t talk about it. All this made me quite determined.
Are you connecting this reticence with organized crime?
No, I think it has more to do with the fact that my grandfather was so beloved in the sports world, that to criticize him publicly isn’t gonna make you any friends. But it was frustrating as a filmmaker to dig through it all to get to that "other side" of Toots, which was really a big part of him.
How did you prepare for “Toots?”
“Toots” was a challenge to me because it was neither issue-based nor cinéma vérité, my milieu for ten years. So I watched a lot of film, and one that really influenced me was “The Life and Times of Hank Greenberg.” That’s what I love about filmmaking—I’ve made films about the Teamsters union and about women survivors of sexual abuse—there was something fun and new about “Toots.”
What’s next for you?
I’ll be doing a film about reform in the juvenile justice system in
When does "Toots" hit the theaters?
It's coming out in September of 2007. Neil Friedman at Menemsha Films really gets "Toots" and I’m very excited about that. His distribution model really fits the film.
Jon Robbins and Kristi Jacobson
Where did you get all that great archival footage?
The Oral History Recordings at
Gabrielle Antosiewicz on Love, Judaism, and the Elusive Kosher Man

I started my interview with Director Gabrielle Antosiewicz by asking her out on a date, which she politely but firmly declined. She has had some practice…
In her witty documentary, Gabrielle Antosiewicz gets to know some promising suitors by inviting them to bake a challah. And while the dough is rising, viewers learn about the travails of Internet dating and the secrets hidden beneath an Orthodox woman’s wig.
What other projects have you worked on?My training is as a social worker, and I’ve approached my films from there. My two previous films were about physically challenged people, one about a guy who became unsatisfied with Swiss healthcare and moved to
Your film was very funny and subtle. Are Jews like that in
My crew and I always found the film humorous, but we were pleasantly surprised to find the audiences have agreed. Jews can be very funny in
And the different audiences take it differently. For instance, the Swiss audiences really find the gentleman who sells kosher cheese and chocolate to be great, and funny. The clichés really play well there, and it’s wonderful, an Orthodox Jew selling Swiss cheese and chocolate. It is a good to introduction to Judaism for Swiss audiences.
And your audiences here?
I really appreciated how people waited outside for me at
What is Jewish life like in
How easy is it to be Swiss and Jewish?
We have a large amount of Jews who practice modern Judaism, and are very Swiss. They go to normal schools, and you don’t really know they are Jewish unless you see a kippah. Then you have people like me, the secular, who get their Jewish identity from youth groups, mostly.
In this country, you know every Jew from childhood, and then it is not interesting to date them with you get older. So I cannot find a kosher man. But, maybe I will do as the audiences have been telling me and move to
Or you could date a non-Jew, right? But wasn’t that a problem for one of the families?
And then this Orthodox family got angry and wouldn’t attend the movie because I ended the film saying I might marry a non-kosher man. I told them “I am not judging your life in the film, so you shouldn’t judge mine.”
I’m happy to say I just heard that the gentleman (who sells kosher food) will be attending a talk on Christianity and Judaism I will be giving back home. And I see where he’s coming from, the pressures he faces from his own community, but for me, as a woman, I will be able to make Jewish children and to raise them Jewish, so it is less important to marry a Jewish man. It would be much easier if the husband were Jewish, too, and much more fun. And if he’s not, I will have some difficulties, I’m sure.
Like one of the car dealers in “Matchmaker?”
Yes, the wife converted and then they had children. In fact, the car dealer brothers are twins, and the non-Jewish wives both converted--they do everything together—but they sort of let it fall by the wayside. They turn 50 and the husband joins the Jewish choir and hangs out with Jewish friends. Then, the husband wants the children to marry Jewish spouses. I felt there was a disconnect they didn’t speak about. And then his wife asked him a really good question: “Why didn’t you marry a Jewish woman?” This was a great moment in the film. It was a heavy, serious question that I couldn’t allow myself.
What has the dating experience been like for your Jewish friends in
This is one of things that pushed me to make the movie: once my friends who had been dating non-Jews turned 30, they all started relationships with Jews and within a year all fell in love and got married. I said to myself this is all a bit funny. It never happens to me! What’s going on here?
So what did you do?
I met with my rabbi, which I left out of the film because I didn’t want to present just one sect of rabbi, who helped me calculate that there about 40 available men in my age range and level of observance in the country of
And how has the scene been treating you as of late?
I can tell you that the men who approached me after screenings were strange. It is interesting that sometimes strange people have more confidence in writing and making contact than the normal ones! Yes, at the screenings in
I was intimidated to interview you, I must admit. Because you get such good material from your subjects. Would you tell me how you interview?
Haha. I maintain neutrality, prepare carefully, and let things unfold. What I did in the movie was to portray people from different walks of life without judging them, without too much commentary, a really old documentary style, in a way. And even then I only made fun of myself, really. And I appeared in the movie, which I felt I needed to do if I was going to send the message I wanted to send.
At first I didn’t even want to narrate the film, but then it became clear it needed it. In the voiceover, I make comments that are neutral but playfully ironic, which took me ages to write. And as you remarked earlier, Jon, in one scene you can see my reflection in the glass, and I have my hand over my mouth. That is because I was very tired that day. Normally I am much more animated.
I try to be a good listener, and use silence to get people to say a little more, which often is very interesting. Plus, I always fall in love with my cast of characters, so I like to listen to them talk. And in the end, I show myself too, and I make friends from this. From each film I make at least three or four friends.
To what degree do you think the Jewish experience in
We do have JDate, and I tried this to cast the challah-bakers in “Matchmaker.” But after a while I found you end up writing too much, and the other person’s questions just get silly, like “what is your favorite food to cook?” I would rather meet the person for a cup of coffee. I mean, after a while, what should I tell you, “I’m working. I like to work. I’m sleeping, I’m eating.”? I get bored. Plus, as you saw in the film, my sense of humor is sarcastic. So after a while my emails get sarcastic and this doesn’t fly on JDate! The sarcasm comes from my genes (my dad), and it’s not mean.
Well, they say girls aren’t supposed to be sarcastic.
I know. I should be shy and nice and cooking. That’s why they kept asking me about my favorite dish. I mean, do you want love or someone to feed you?
I just read an article in the New York Times that surprised me. In
Well, your film screens at Makor. You might try their speed-dating service.
You know, a rabbi in
What are the typical questions you get asked?
Back home people always ask about the Palestinian-Israeli conflict, and they think this is one thing they know about. They confuse Judaism with the political policies of
Yes, Gabrielle is having a latte with me. She is not bombing as of yet.
Thanks. And I also get a lot of appreciative comments regarding the plurality of Jews in “Matchmaker.” Walking the streets of
So you play the role of educator, too.
Oh, very much so. In fact I had this in mind as I approached “Matchmaker,” that it would educational and entertaining. All my movies are like that: I try to entertain and to inform. When I watch documentaries, it can get depressing. So I try to impart the information via entertainment. If you don’t have to cry and you’re allowed to laugh, I think it works best. That’s my own recipe.
Where does this leave you in your search for a man?
It is a shame that things are so complicated. Ideally everyone would just mix and be friends and lovers, but that isn’t how it is. I’m not stressed out though, because I know I will meet someone who is comfortable by himself, too. And until then I’m waiting for that crazy feeling in your body when you fall in love.
The Directors Eat!
Andrew Ingall of the Jewish Museum reported the following on the Director's dinner:
"On Saturday night, January 20, Joan Rosenbaum, The Jewish Museum’s Helen Goldsmith Menschel Director, invited NYJFF filmmakers to dinner at Josephina, across from the Lincoln Center Plaza. Guests included Gabrielle Antosiewicz (Matchmaker), Henry Meyer (Four Weeks in June), Gabriela Bohm (The Longing), Yoram Ivry (Family Matters), Zohar Lavi (Chronicle of a Jump), Kristi Jacobson (Toots), Lucy Kostelanetz (Sonia), Julia Kots (Naturalized), and festival staffers Andy Ingall and Aviva Weintraub. Topics of discussion included: the benefits of a formal film school vs. a self-taught education, audience response to one’s film in a Jewish film festival and a more general film festival, and the benefits of being part of a community of filmmakers."

Left to right, Zohar Lavi (Chronicle of a Jump), Gabriela Bohm (The Longing), Yoram Ivry (Family Matters)
"Hineini:" Judaism, Homosexuality, and One Young Woman's Strength

“Hineini, Hebrew for 'Here I am,' chronicles the story of one student’s courageous fight to establish a gay-straight alliance at a Jewish high school in the
-Interview by Jon Robbins
I spoke with Irena Fayngold, Director of Hineini, Idit Klein (Executive Director of Keshet, the organization that produced the film), Bonnie Rosenbaum (Director of Communications and Film Outreach, Keshet; Associate Producer, "Hineini"), and the film’s star, Shulamit Izen.
How did “Hineini” come about?
Idit Klein: The project started in 2002 when Shulamit spoke at a Keshet house party and a member urged her to document the story. So I called my friend Irena, and as we started work the project grew and grew. It bloomed from a two-month project.
Irena: The school’s board early on revoked permission for us to shoot Hineini. A student, who is now a filmmaker, Arnon Shorr, had been walking around with a camera. We were completely lucky to have his footage, which comprises virtually everything shot at the high school. It really made the film possible.
Shulamit [the film's star], throughout the documentary, you get mixed messages from your teachers, the rabbi-principal of your high school, your parents, perhaps even from your study of Judaism, in general. How did you assimilate all these mixed messages into a framework you could live with?
Shulamit: In the film it is clear that my teacher gave me mixed messages, and in fact it was to her that I came out in the ninth grade. It was in a Jewish Thought class, and we had been studying Jewish views on homosexuality. We had read Maimonides where he proclaims that women who rub up against each other should be flogged. I felt so pained, and she hugged me.
Later I knew she wasn’t a supporter of the Gay-Straight Alliance that I had started, but knowing that she had hugged me, had reached out to me personally, that I remembered. Really, that’s how it was with most of the school; they could mostly accept me on a personal level.
Shulamit, do you feel that having studied texts early on, Jewish texts that are so full of mixed messages, prepared you for coming out? Did being a Jew prepare you for being a lesbian?
Shulamit: I think the Jewish concept of Engaged Argument created an environment where I could struggle and the struggle would hurt, but that was also the point.
Irena Feingold: What impressed me about Shula was her ability to live in the tension, with the contradictions. She was never satisfied to be comfortable on one side of an issue. She needed to struggle with what the text said.
Idit: There is a part of Shulamit that demands the full embrace and love of the community, even as she struggles. She says at one point in the film that she is willing to struggle in her relationship with god, but not with her community. Even there I see a contradiction.
Irena: It’s fine to talk about theory, but as adults we have to recognize that these young people are not struggling in the abstract. They are dealing with real life, and we have to deal with these issues before we deal with the theories of the text. I think Shulamit was able to deal with text in an advanced way, but not all kids at that age can. I remember boys at the school and they’re holding their ego in their hands and they just want to know that they’re okay. That’s really important to remember before you engage in theoretical conversations with kids.
And that’s what impressed me as a filmgoer, that you, Shulamit, were able to struggle without that baseline of affirmation...
Irene: But Shulamit did have affirmation at home, which some kids, and I’ve gotten letters to this effect, did not. Professionals have told me that kids cannot do without this support.
Was that your experience, Shulamit, that you found affirmation at home?
Shulamit: I think that Keshet was even more than home a place of support. After the principal of my high school shot me down when I explained what I was going through, the first thing I did was to call Keshet, whose director sat in a Dunkin Donuts with me and we talked.
At home, my mother made it clear “this is your fight, I’m not fighting this for you,” so I guess you can debate how much support that was. And clearly I wanted her on my team, but she was a weak cheerleader. She did bake cookies! [laughter all around]. But I think Irena’s right, I did have more support than others.
Even with the support you had, Shulamit, the task you undertook, to introduce a Gay-Straight
Shulamit: Watching anyone change is incredible and unexpected. In this case, it happened because I had training from Keshet in community organizing. I realized that even if the rabbi [and principal] couldn’t hear me he would hear other around him. Building one-on-one relationships with those in his community was key, and then when teachers in the school came out and spoke with him, he realized, I think, that there was a lot of hurt and hiding. In the end, he is a very sensitive person and he responded.
Irena: One of the skills that Shula has is, as Idit once said, that she isn’t afraid of putting herself out there, in spite of potential rejection. I think that the rabbi’s realization at the end is that it is the responsibility of adults to help kids with these issues.
Idit: Shulamit offered people the opportunity to be allies with her, not just to help her. Her language was key in letting people see how they, too, were invested in her struggle, how it was theirs as well. I think this was extraordinary and particular to Shulamit. The strategy of approaching people one-on-one was something we taught her at Keshet, but her openness and trust is uniquely Shula.
Have you found, Idit, that many of the young people who come to your organization struggle with these mixed messages?
Idit: Sure. I mean, I have plenty of kids whose parents are good
Irena: Kids live in an environment controlled by their parents and their schools, so we need to reach out and be explicit in affirming them. Just because they live in
At one point in the film, Shulamit identifies a teacher’s rainbow keychain, which is a way of saying, “I, too, am a lesbian.” The teacher analyzes this for the camera, and says that Shula was telling her ’I see you, do you see me?” I liked this a lot, and I wanted to ask Irena whether this was a guiding principal in the film: that once you see, you cannot help but be engaged?
Irena: Sure. I like that. And the question is also how do you get people to see. I hope this film allows people to do that.
From left to right, Shulamit Izen, Idit Klein, and Irena Fayngold
What were some of the factors that drove you, Shula, to keep active despite the obstacles?
Shulamit: When I was in a private place, like the girl’s room, for instance, people would confide in me “I just kissed a girl. What does that mean about me?” So I knew there were other people in the school who wanted to be out, and that drove me. And I’d already been active in a letter-writing campaign on behalf of gay men in Egyptian prisons, yet I couldn’t be out in my own school.
I just found that when you open up and show your vulnerability, people respond in kind. They open up and soften, and seeing this in just one person is sustaining. I realized that everyone, at some point, feels they are on the boundaries of their community, so what does that say about their community?
What is Keshet?
Idit: Keshet was started by three Jewish men who wanted a place where they could be themselves fully, as gay Jews. I’ve brought community-organizing strategies to the organization, which is now a big part of what we do. We’re now doing work to help schools formulate curricula that are GLBT-inclusive in






